All right, Steve, whenever you begin, I Actually, just give me one second. Steve, we just heard from David Wright, the clock is ticking, those batteries could run out by early next week. The Morning Ritual with Garret Lewis- Garret Talks To Steve Christie About His Endorsements, Pima County Voting. Without separating the Marian dogmas from them are where these much, much later Marian dogmas developed from and later forced into the text, which would have been foreign to the biblical writers. And the issue too, is it discusses the word ipsum as opposed to ipsa, when it says from Genesis 15, if she will bruise the heel, or his heel will be versed, however its actually worded. Does the Bible teach that no human being has ever been assumed into heaven? Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it is important. Its nice to be able to go through all of these scripture passages. So even if that dogma is defined ex cathedra by a pope, by an ecumenical council, or by the magisterium, if it contradicts scripture, that dogma must be rejected. But that doesnt mean that we cant show veneration and respect towards the things that God has made and those people who have cooperated with God in salvation history. Oh wow. Or Steve could show Bible teaches the opposite of these dogmas in regard to every single human being without exception, which would include Mary. Finally, Christies Pharisee argument for the Protestant Old Testament canon fails because its logic can be used to make a similar argument for a completely different Old Testament canon. And weve also addressed that frequently at catholic.com. For example, Jesus said among those born of women none was greater than John the Baptist (Luke 7:28)and John was not a Pharisee. GANYARD: It sure is, George. Yeah. As Trent Horn shared with Matt Fradd on Sips with Aquinas Ooh. Trent, whenever you begin, Ill click the five minute timer. Even if the Pharisees had a canon that matched modern Protestantisms, his argument doesnt work, because it relies on a mistaken assumption about the Pharisees authority. I just think, Well, yeah, Id also want to make my foster father perfect. Because they have the same father but different mothers. Then Psalm 69:5 is applied non literally to Jesus and I would say Psalm 69:8 about mothers and brethren is applied non literally as well. The night before that, we did an examination of conscience together. Luke 2:7, Steve said, Well, look. It was only four yards short of the all-time NFL record. We discovered it, carbon-dated it, thats the cross Jesus died on. And so moving from that, that if Jesus Christ did establish the church, if Im confident of that and in its teaching authority, then I can be confident in what the Pope teaches about Mary in regards to those two dogmas but I can especially have confidence knowing that what is taught does not contradict scripture. And I really appreciate that you are arguing against Catholicism based on what she teaches, right? This is an example called eisegesis of Scripture. I guess, after the New Testament, I guess heres a fun question, which of the church fathers would you be okay with preaching at your church? By contrast, some quoted Sirach as a book of Scripture, though it was eventually excluded. So Steve is saying that the word adelphi, which means sister. Thank you very much, Trent. In his study of Josephus and the Hebrew canon, Jonathan Campbell points out that the roughly contemporaneous text of 4 Ezra assumes the existence of ninety-four Jewish scriptures. After an in-depth study of the writings of the Church Fathers, both Steve and his wife Janet converted to the Catholic Church. It has nothing to do with Mary being the ark. Psalm 130, verse eight, promises God will redeem Israel from all its iniquities. This is an example of eisegesis and known as a typology thats used a lot of times by Catholic apologists. This is actually based on Jeromes incorrect translation, where he used the word ipsa for she, rather than the corrected translation, which is ipsum for he, which is actually supported in Romans chapter 16 when it says, Jesus is the prince whose heel would be bruised.. Yeah. While the Greek word adelphos, translated brothers, can have numerous meetings in scripture, the specific Greek word adelphi, translated sisters, only has two. Singleton New South Wales MRC Australia provide radiator and cooling solutions to Mining , Automotive, Industrial , Agricultural , Marine and Rail Operations. They wanted people following scripture even if they were wrong. By: Rochester Business Journal Staff By Scott Pitoniak May 19, 2017. So this question is for Steve and this comes from Kevin, whos a local supporter. Are you talking about 19 probably later, after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, I know not Oh, the ones that have not known a man? Steve Christie - Apologetics315 Debate: Do Protestants Have the Correct Old Testament Canon? Posts about Steve Jobs written by Christian Apologist. Well, first of all, I want to thank you, Matt, for having me on, for hosting this debate and for all that, and for everyone affiliated with Pints with Aquinas. That she was conceived without original sin? What plunged mankind into the fall was Adams sin, which resulted in Adam and by extension all of mankind, including Mary, physically dying. So ultimately Steve has the burden here to show that the Marian dogmas contradict scripture, and hes brought up a lot of points. The purpose of this debate, as Trent had brought up, is about the Marian Dogmas. Until his death of cancer at 74 in May, Zacharias had been one of the best-known figures of American Christian radio and TV for decades. I believe hes referring to part of a declaration in [inaudible 01:35:47], the declaration about the immaculate conception made by the Pope in 1854, saying that the fathers had always believed this about Mary being immaculately conceived. Im just asking is there an example of anywhere in scripture where its used to describe siblings they have the same mother but they have different fathers? Well, of course not. As the Apostle Paul wrote in his fourth chapter in his epistle to the Roman church, For what does Scripture say? Influenced early on by early monasticism, asceticism, and even gnostic-like texts, early Roman Catholics were troubled by how a created sinful fallen creature went on to have other children and could give birth to the sinless Son of God in the flesh. This is something Paul gave as concession, not as command to others. This means that there was no single, closed Hebrew canon during the time of Christ, and some Jews considered the deuterocanonical books to be Scripture. Defenders Media provides media solutions to an alliance of evangelistic ministries that defend the Christian worldview. Steve, whenever you want to begin, Ill click the timer. The earliest source sharing in this view that she died first is from the Dormition. It can mean sister of having the same mother and father, or of having just the same father, or just the same mother. Thats right. How do you understand Luke 1:28s title for Mary as full of grace in the Greek, literally meaning something like having been made completely full in regards to the immaculate conception? Primary meaning of the word adelphos can either refer to having the same biological mother or father. Ive crowned myself king, and I demand it. Christie, 47, played for the Bills from 1992 to 2000. Hallo.com/mattfred. So the protestant reformers like Luther and Zwingly, did they believe Mary was a perpetual Virgin and were they committed to Sola scriptura? It is because of my tremendous love and respect for the Mary of God [inaudible 01:48:45] Scripture, that I felt the responsibility to point out that the Mary of Roman Catholicism is not the same as the Mary of the Word of God. With the Bills, he would become one of the game's top kickers. Our two sources of evidence during this period would be Jewish and Christian authors. He became sinner. Yeah, no, no, no. Scripture reveals Mary was a Virgin, but conflicts with her being a perpetual Virgin. 9035 SW 72nd St Ste 102 Miami, FL 33173. Thank you. By that argument, St. Anne would also have to be immaculately conceived. So Im not going to comment on that. So summarize, the Bible does not teach that Mary sin nor does it teach that every single human being has committed a sin or inherited original sin without exception. The danger of submitting to this fallible authority extends to submitting to their authority of their unbiblical view of salvation of infusion of grace through the sacraments, which also contradicts Scripture, which teaches justification by imputation of grace by faith alone. How do we know theyre brothers? The Story of Reality: Apologist Greg Koukl Discusses His New Book. Okay. But anyways, Im going to come back to that. But it doesnt say anything about him being bodily assumed or anything. May 31, 2022. You just have to join locals in the same way youd have to join Twitter or Facebook to get access to it. So to talk about things that came up in this debate, there are things that came up that were not debating, things like Sola Scriptura, the history of the Marian dogmas. And I can honestly say the same thing about Mary especially with the oppression of Rome and the Jews especially after Jesus was born. It says in the plural, May their camp be a desolation. Christie is currently President of Relative Goal Sports and Entertainment Management LLC., certified as a Canadian Football League contract advisor and has represented numerous musical acts in both the United States and Scotland. All right. Steve Christie Geoffrey Stephen Christie Position: K 6-0 , 195lb (183cm, 88kg) Born: November 13 in Oakville, Ontario (Age: 55-107d) College: William & Mary Weighted Career AV (100-95-. Those that have been infallibly defined to be part of divine revelation. James White: Steve Ray is a Dolt, Dunce, Imbecile, Idiot, and Ignoramus *** [] What is clear is that Ray has not seriously interacted with anything other than this kind of "Jack Chick/Dave Hunt . He had cancer and heart disease. Please join our community. First Corinthians 15, in my opening statement, it says that there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies and people who have earthly bodies are sown perishable, meaning corruptible in dishonor, meaning contempt, reproach. They also didnt believe the Gospels or other New Testament documents were inspired, so they dont have a great track record when it comes telling us what is and isnt Scripture. But when we look at something like Strongs for example, are you aware that Strongs defines adelphos and adelphe the same way? Back to top Alert abuse. Okay. Itll make me feel really good if nothing else. And then take heart in knowing that these teachings about Mary dont contradict Scripture, and then we can further infer and try to understand what are the sources of divine revelation. But I mean, some of the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas Iscariot. I believe all things are possible with God. Finally, lets look at the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. Lets see. The importance of discussing these Marian dogma is more than merely to debate them. 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